Repost: Skyleader ODDITY!

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Wavemeter
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Repost: Skyleader ODDITY!

Post by Wavemeter »

Well I have just bought another transmitter from our dear friend EBay! This time a lovely Skyleader Clubman Super. It was pretty clean but A bit more scrubbing and it’s come up lovely. As soon as I opened the box I had a twiddle of the sticks as you do. I noticed immediately that they were stuck on one axis. Now usually this usually signifies bad internal corrosion, however opening the back it’s beautifully clean but the stick units have been glued up and pots removed so they only operate on one axis each. The right-hand stick left and right and the left hand stick up and down. I fully expected to see it made off as if it had been done by a previous owner but now I’m completely confused because the encoder board only has two channels and the receiver a blanked off section for the remaining channels - In Other words two channel only. It’s a late date version of the club man super with an FM 35 MHz board. I want to run this at least four channel so I’m going to have to add one of Phil's encoder boards or Rob another encoder board from something else less desirable ! Has anyone seen the like before? :? Jonathan
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Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Mike_K » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:26 pm


Hi Jonathan. I don't think it is an oddity at all, you've bought yourself a Skyleader 2 channel set and it is how it came out of the factory. I've got a 2 channel Skyleader CS AM set in my collection and it's Tx encoder board is similarly only populated with components for 2 channels, the joysticks have been glued into the centre and no pots were fitted for the unused channels. Oh and the trims have been cut off flush for the unused channels. What confirms you have a 2 channel set is that the RX is 2 channels as well. Skyleader made a big thing about buying 2, 3 or 4 channel sets and being able to upgrade them to 7 channels, but in practice most people bought 4 channel sets unless they flew gliders. But sets only used for gliders tend to be cleaner than those covered in glow fuel.

Without new joysticks I think you'll struggle to modify it to 4 channels or more. Maybe somebody on the forum has some spare Skyleader joysticks? If not you often see Fleet Custom 2 FM sets (the black ones) and they use Skyleader (SRC) sticks. They come up on eBay far more frequently and are usually cheaper than Skyleader CS sets too. The other advantage of using Fleet sticks is that the Skyleader CS sticks had really strong centring springs, that make them feel really heavy if you normally fly with more modern sets. The Fleet sets used the same weaker springs that the Skyleader TSX used. I fly with a 2.4GHz converted Skyleader SLX as my everyday transmitter and I quickly fitted some spare TSX springs that made a big difference. I also shortened the sticks by about 15mm in length, to make them similar in length to a modern set such as a Spektrum, Futaba or JR.

Regards Mike


Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Phil_G » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:59 pm


As well as the Clubman they also did a 'Clubmate' which was a 2ch budget set using those horrid single axis sticks that look like they're stamped from 3mm sheet:
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Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Mike_K » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 pm


Beside the 2 channel CS, I also have a 2 channel Clubman with the Kraft Hayes joysticks (the one on the right in the photo). Rather than gluing the joysticks in the centre, they soldered them up with wire to the metal yokes! They didn't bother to fit a buddy box switch or circuitry either, it was a definite budget model.

The most unusual/oddity Skyleader I have is the blue cased 3 channel 3S and no it isn't a 3 cell lipo before you ask! It was sold in two versions, one with a throttle but no rudder (AET) and one for slope soarers with AER, but no throttle, which is what I have. The "throttle" is wired up and soldered into the centre in the same was as on the Clubman.

I think the Clubmate was the lowest quality set Skyleader ever made. Phil is 100% correct when he says that the sticks felt like they were made from sheets of cheap 3mm plastic. Did anybody actually fly with the Clubmate? I never saw anybody flying with a one, but saw them being used in boats and cars. I now have two complete sets but have never bothered to try to get either of them working.
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Mike_K

Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby ronstv » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:15 am


How about these for an oddity!!
A skyleader reeds and single channel button set.

Ron.
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Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Wavemeter » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:16 pm


Hi Guys

Thank you thats MOST interesting! Mike you are right on the money Its a set out of a glider and flown twin stick. I just couldnt see the economics of making a two channel set in a 4 channel box.

I have already converted it to the full dual axis sticks - Right again Mike I used surplus Fleet spares and noticed along the way the softer springs - Another tick Mike!

It now has the smoothest sticks of all three of my Skyleader outfits. :geek:

I have a spare Futaba challenger encoder board but its near impossible to fit into the Skyleader case. So i am most likely to use Phil's 7 channel propo board which I already have in my possesion. All I need now from you guys is pointing in the right direction to find the right circuit diagram to hook it up. I am assuming Phil has already pre-programmed the board??

I am a bit of a purist as I really like the sets to retain their original innards as much as possible, and their outward appearance. I love the telescopic aerials of 35 and 27 and indeed still fly on 27mhz.
(Being a radio ham i do listen out on 27 - not heard a thing in months round here)
All this is very odd as I was one of the first to own a Reftec UHF (which never worked reliably) I still have it as I could see the short aerials were such an advantage when stretching out a bungee with glider in one hand TX in the other.
On the other hand I really LOVE Ron's 'fictitious' Skyleader Reeds outfits. I have Phils board for one of those too - and yes with the 2.4ghz aerials.

Now- Excuse my Ignorance . But would it be possible to programme Phils board to give me :1/ Differential aileron 2/ Rudder-Aileron mix 3/ Exponential ?? and all this controlled via a window on a laptop so there would be no need for a digital display on the TX?

Really enjoying this Forum! Will post lots of pictures soon :roll:


Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Phil_G » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:05 pm

Wavemeter wrote:Now- Excuse my Ignorance . But would it be possible to programme Phils board to give me :1/ Differential aileron 2/ Rudder-Aileron mix 3/ Exponential ?? and all this controlled via a window on a laptop so there would be no need for a digital display on the TX?
It depends what you mean by 'programme' Jonathan. Its a general purpose Atmel processor board so if you're up to the challenge you could indeed write the software to do that, but its a major undertaking and that you're asking suggests that maybe its a step beyond. My own "7ch+s/c mix" software which is presently loaded onto your board, is a very simple, minimal encoder, it doesnt have (or need) a display, model memories, windows interface, or any of the fancy stuff you're looking for. In fact I dont know of a homebrew encoder that does have a Windows interface, but Mikes does have every other conceivable 'Computer Radio' feature that you could possibly need, its equal to any present day commercial offering. Mine was only ever intended as a simple replacement encoder for Kraft/Skyleader/Waltron etc 'period' radios which didnt even have servo-reversing. Mikes is the Full Monty, like a homebrew Spekky DX9 or similar.
Cheers
Phil


Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Wavemeter » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:47 pm


Hi Phil

Actually Im really happy with the basic stuff and an ecoder that will do the job is great for me. The other windows interface idea was only a dream. Maybe when it comes to it I will get the low don on Mikes outfits. Where on here do I find the circuit diagram to link up your board to the Skyleader?


Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby ceptimus » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:07 pm


It's an interesting idea to use a phone or computer as the programming device so that the transmitter doesn't need a display or display navigation controls of its own. Most of us usually take a smart phone when we go flying now, so even something as mundane as swapping to a different model memory could be done via the phone.

It would be possible to do without any wires by having the transmitter act as an access point. If the processor in the transmitter is limited (like a 328 Arduino) then you'd need an ESP8266 or similar module to provide the access point in the transmitter and an app on the phone to talk to it. But with a more capable processor inside the transmitter, the configuration could all be done via web pages created by the transmitter processor so you'd just use your phone's normal browser.

A neat way to go would be to use a Raspberry Pi Zero-W as the transmitter encoder board. They're tiny and only cost about £25. They have built-in WiFi that the phone could connect to, more than enough processing power, and enough GPIO to connect to the sticks, transmitter switches and RF output module without needing anything else - except some kind of analogue input chip/module, or some digital pots for the joysticks. Maybe it would be best to slave an Arduino to the Pi and have the Arduino do the low level pot reading and PPM stuff, leaving the Pi free to concentrate on higher things!

Some people might not like that there would be a WiFi 'transmitter' inside the Tx that could theoretically interfere with the normal radio transmission - but its really no different to Bluetooth which several commercial transmitters already have, and in any case it would be easy to have a switch or other means of turning off the WiFi except when programming the transmitter.

It would be a fairly involved project and would likely take a month or more to complete but I might take a look at it, if anyone's interested...

Martin.


Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Phil_G » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:20 pm

Wavemeter wrote:Where on here do I find the circuit diagram to link up your board to the Skyleader?
Hi Jonathan, as with all the projects, the Archive page of http://www.singlechannel.co.uk
The one you're looking for is P16 Image

Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Wavemeter » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:44 pm


Phil thanks a lot will take a look shortly. The old Challenger encoder board is just too big I’ve had another look this eve. It will foil the stick gimbals. So it’s use your board (most likely) or appeal to anyone on here to sell me a Skyleader encoded board they have removed.
Ceptimus that all sounds brilliant. I have no idea how to go about it but it does mean the look of a vintage tx does not have to be compromised with a digital display - Alyhough many on here have been beautifully executed. Alternatively Put the digital display on the bottom - so it can be read with the Tx lying on its back perhaps? All very interesting stuff 8-)
Here is photo of the completed sticks with Fleet bits added so I now have two dual axis joysticks
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Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Mike_K » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:58 am


Jonathan. I've probably got enough spare components to populate your existing encoder board to 4 channels if you want to keep things as original as possible, but you would have to set up the timing for the half shots for the new channels.

I've also got an untested encoder board from a Skyleader TSX, taken out when I fitted one of my encoders a while back. It would fit straight in, but would need some re-wiring as it had the dreaded "black wire".

I've got a spare 7 channel Skyleader 35MHz FM Rx if you need, though you should find the other channels are in your Rx, except that the servo connectors are not fitted. I'd be a bit cautious of using old SRC-1 servos as some of mine have the output arms getting quite brittle.

If you wanted to be ambitious I could let you have details of my encoder, then you'd finish up with a 10 model memory computer transmitter, with similar features to a Spektrum DX8, except no heli mixes, no telemetry or spoken alarms, but with single channel compound and sequential added. It's got aileron differential too. I use my Skyleader SLX and Micron PL7D as my everyday transmitters to fly most types of fixed wing. Over the weekend I flew my Junior 60 (using S/C compound emulation), a warm liner glider, a 4 servo wing powered glider and a Multiplex foamy 3D. This evening I flew my Bonsai flying wing with LED's so as you can see, you can use it like a modern computer set, yet all the nostalgia of a 1970's transmitter. And you can practice your S/C flying.

Finally you asked about aileron differential. Don't forget that you can get differential mechanically by using a servo output disk instead of a servo arm and connect up the aileron linkages either in front or behind the centre line.

Mike

Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Wavemeter » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:35 pm


Mike that’s so helpful thank you! sorry didn’tt see your post. I am interested to see your 10 channel project. This particular transmitter feels like a favourite so may well benefit from extra facilities.


Re: Skyleader ODDITY!
Postby Mike_K » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:51 pm


Jonathan, if you PM me your details, I'll send you the bits you need. I have sent a PM to you but it doesn't appear to send as it's still in my outbox.

Cheers

Mike

continued here...
Reconstituted boy
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